Question on "philosophy" of NASM vs. ACSM - Personal Trainer Community - Forum

[BrianB]

First, thanks for this site -- it is fantastic.

I've made sure to do my reading and searching here and abroad before posting this question, so if it has already been covered elsewhere, please forgive and kindly point me.

In reading through all of the "which certification should I earn" posts, the best advice I've seen is to go with a top tier certification (NASM, ACSM, NSCA) and to pick the one who's philosophy is closest to your own. This makes perfect sense. In having probably spent about 20 hours on the NASM and ACSM websites, reading their materials, looking at the Table of Contents for some of the books, etc., I'm not finding a great deal of information that really gives me a high level idea of what their philosophies are.

I've read here (by Christina I'm pretty sure) that ACSM advocates strength training 2 times a week and cardio 5 times a week. I've also read that NASM is becoming more and more "corrective exercise" centric. Some folks seem to think highly of NSCA, but between the various physicians, trainers, and gym owners that I've chatted with, virtually nobody mentions NSCA. Most of the gym owners seem to prefer the NASM, while the medical folks seem to find the ACSM to be most credible (and more worthy of the label "gold standard" which both ACSM and NASM seem to want to lay claim to).

Before I say why and get to my pointed question, a little about my background and motivation.

I used to be super-morbidly obese -- like nearly 370 pounds. I lost the weight on a fantastic medically supervised program that involved no exercise whatsoever (which I passionately endorse for the morbidly obese). At the end of that I was to goal weight, but wanting to do something more with my body. I got a gym membership for the first time in about 8 years and have since really taken to it. I worked with a personal trainer for a couple months, and then on my own for quite some time now.

I do strength training 3 days a week, cardio the other 2, and have a goal of LBM gains. I am a highly scientific type, and will finish my non-health-related Bachelor's degree in April. Despite not working in the fitness field, and not having a science degree, I know more about fitness and nutrition than your average lay person (and most trainers according to my trainer buddy) and absorb any and all data on the topic rapidly. I am an accomplished student (straight A's in college anyway -- don't ask about high school), and have taken at least 20 other very difficult certification exams in my field of profession (always passing on the first try).

To get my "feet wet" I went through the APEX Fitness Professional certification because the owner of the gym I go to now likes his trainers to have it. It is not a personal trainer certification. It deals mostly with meal planning, nutrition, supplementation, energy balance, general exercise outcomes, etc. It was interesting nonetheless and I'm glad I did it. It definitely got me primed and ready for more.

I desire to get a NASM or ACSM CPT cert to round out my knowledge, and to open the door to possibly doing personal training part time with the gym I currently work out in. Given my personal history with weight loss (going from 376 pound couch potato to 195 pound weakling to 173 pounds and 6.6% body fat), my passion is/would-be dealing with folks with specific body adaptation in mind -- not the "general exercise" crowd. I would want to work with those who have had a hard time losing weight, a hard time gaining weight, etc. -- things that lend themselves to my deep knowledge of metabolism, body composition, body adaptation, etc. I already make a fine living in another field, and can't see that this would ever be able to replace that income, so this would be a part time endeavor (evenings and weekends) for me -- mostly as my way of helping others (and if I earn a little extra green, that's great too). I remember how hopeless I was (when I was SMO) and now that I have the knowledge and the personal experience to confidently help someone else who may be hopeless, I really want to be able to do that. So, I'm not really looking to train football players, I'm not looking to coach athletes back from sports injuries, etc. (though knowing how to properly do those things would be fine). I'm more interested in being qualified to develop exercise plans that fall into the specific goals of "weight loss" or "lean mass gain" -- for the "hard cases". While I feel like I know a good bit about how to do that now (more about weight loss than LBM gain), knowing it and being "qualified to do it" are two different things -- hence the desire for certification. I have a lot to learn about body building and I know that any of these certs would do that.

OK, so that's the long story. Sorry it was so long. I just felt that those of you that are already NASM, ACSM, NSCA, etc., would be more likely to know which would "resonate" with me if you knew a bit about me, where I came from, and what I want to do.

I guess that also implies my pointed question: given my background and goals, which cert probably is most likely to have a compatible "philosophy"?

Thanks in advance for your comments, suggestions, and feedback.

P.S. I've already ordered the recommended study materials for ACSM since they were pretty inexpensive and Christina seemed to really like one of the new manuals whether you were going for ACSM or not.

P.P.S. Rereading my post it sounds like I'm really trying to talk myself up at some points. That was not my intent. I just know that when recommending a certification, one factor you might weigh is how well the person "tests". I've seen some folks that struggled with ACSM/NASM and the recommendation was to start with ACE. Given that many of you say you passed ACSM/NASM the first shot, I can only assume those that struggled may just not "test well", or may just not have the scientific background to readily absorb this material. It was only my intent to try to communicate my ability in those areas for the purposes of helping those of you who have already traveled this path to guide me.

Thanks again for reading all this mess!

[Christina]

Hi Brian and welcome.

First off, I want to congratulate you on your AMAZING transformation. You will be a fantastic role model for your clients!!!

As far as the certs are concerned, I am not NASM certified so I am not qualified to give you an opinion on this organization. Most folks I have talked to who are NASM certified really like the teachings/philosophies of this organization.

If you plan to target the morbidly obese crowd through physicians, then perhaps the ACSM certification would be more recognized by the medical community. (?) The doctors I know have all heard of ACSM. The one thing that I love about the text is that it really focuses on the personal trainer's role as a teacher. I think you would find this information very beneficial for your targeted clientele. Personally, I think the ACSM certification would be a good fit for you and your demographic, but again, I am not NASM certified. You could always go to the library and see if they have a copy of NASM's text. If they do not, order one through interlibrary loan and take a look at it and see what you think. I'm sure others who are NASM certified will chime in with their opinions as well.

On a side note, one thing that I find very interesting is that the ACSM and NASM have teamed up for the Health and Fitness Summit in recent years.

I hope this helps a little. If you have any other questions just ask!

Christina

[BrianB]

Thanks for your reply Christina. I think when it comes to the morbidly and super morbidly obese, I'd definitely point them to the medically supervised program that I did and tell them to come see me when/if they were ready to add exercise into the mix. Regarding ACSM and the medical community, I agree with your perception that the doctors out there are more familiar with, and think more highly of, the ACSM. Whether or not there is a good reason for that, or if it is just a familiarity thing, who knows, but acceptance by others is a big reason to choose one cert over another (or we'd all just learn the material and not bother with any "certification" at all).

I'm hoping to hear from someone, over in the other topic I started, about the benefits of taking the ACSM 3 Day workshop. I still have about 5 more days before the registration window closes, so there's a little time. I seem to recall reading here that you've not done the workshop, but I'm sure there are plenty here who have. It's not a monumental amount of money, but it's more than I'd want to invest if it's not something that's really useful.

Thanks again for the reply and for these forums!

[C Lenart]

Brian:

Regarding ACSM's philosophy. I am a certified ACSM Health/Fitness Instructor and my take is that ACSM's emphasis is primarily on special population groups like seniors, young adolescents, individuals with coronary and lung conditions, and the like. If you want to get a grasp of ACSM's take on fitness appraisal and prescription, I would suggest the ACSM Guidelines For Exercise Testing and Prescription, Seventh Edition. This text gives you a pretty good view on ACSM, namely that it is heavily geared towards determining coronary artery disease risk profiles, exercise testing for any number of special population groups, and the setting of basic standards for weekly flexibility, weight, and aerobic training.

I choose ACSM because it deals heavily with people with coronary and pulmonary conditions which are the clients that I market my services to. I am not NASM certified but I know a fair amount of people who are both ACSM and NASM certified.

Regarding the ACSM 3 day workshop. I did not take this workshop before I took and passed the ACSM Health/Fitness exam but I might take it in the future to brush up on some hands-on skills.

Best of Luck,

Curt

[BrianB]

Thanks for the additional information Curt. After having read around a little more on the net I definitely plan to take the workshop. It seems like it will be well worth the $379.

I'd love to do the HFI cert, but my bachelor's degree isn't in a health related field, so I don't meet the education requirement.

I've also done some more reading around and made up my mind that at least initially I'm for sure going to do the ACSM first. It seems like that is the more respected certification to the category of people that will be most pertinent to my situation. After that then perhaps I'll tackle NASM just because most of the gyms seem to like to see that one.

I'm going to be real interested to see how long it takes me to prepare for this exam. As I said before, I can absorb material quite quickly and test really well. I read a post somewhere (not here) from a guy that supposedly passed the exam with about a week's prep time. That strikes me as a little tough to believe since most folks seem to say they require months of preparation to pass it. I'm thinking that my lack of experience as a personal trainer will mean I'll need more prep than some, while my experience studying and taking certification tests will help me get through that prep a little faster than some.

I've never failed a certification test in my life -- but something tells me that this baby could very easily be the first if I underestimate it and don't really give it the time it deserves.

[C Lenart]

Good for you Brian.

When you complete the ACSM workshop, hopefully you will have an idea as to where you stand as far as what it takes to pass the ACSM CPT exam. It's also a good idea to disregard your performances on certification exams that you might have taken in the past. Doesn't count for much with ACSM.

Finally, I would "highly" recommend purchasing the ACSM Guidelines For Exercise Testing and Prescription-Seventh edition. In the back of the Exercise Prescription Guide on pages 317-323, you will find a section called ACSM certified personal trainer, Knowledge, Skills, and Abilities (KSAs): These 6 pages of documentation at the back of the Exercise Prescrition Guide tell you "line by line" what you need to know in order to pass the CPT exam. Make sure you know these items on these 6 pages of text at the back of the guide. You WILL be tested on them!

I am posting the link for the ACSM Guidelines For Exercise Testing and Prescription-Seventh edition that can be purchased through Amazon for $35 new or $25 used if you want to save a few bucks. You can also purchase the Guide through ACSM if you like.

http://www.amazon.com/ACSMs-Guidelin...2736900&sr=8-1

Best of Luck,

Curt
Certified ACSM Health/Fitness Instructor

[BrianB]

Thanks Curt. I've already ordered the "ACSM's Personal Trainer Study Kit" which includes:

ACSM's Certification Review, Second Edition
ACSM's Guidelines for Exercise Testing and Prescription, Seventh Edition
ACSM's Resources for the Personal Trainer, Second Edition

I appreciate the tip to pay particular attention to the KSA's. I'll be sure that for each of those items I could teach a class on it if I had to. :-)

I'm hoping the materials show up quickly as I'd like to get a jump on studying so I can go into the workshop with as much information in my head as possible. I'm sure the more I already know, the more I'll get out of the workshop.

[rbd]

First I would question any place or individual that is not mentioning NSCA, since they have the most stringent guidelines for their test and cert in the industry. I was listening to someone who is on the board talk about what goes into a question even making it on the test and it by far is more strigent then NASM and possibly ACSM. I have always told my staff and individuals looking to get into the industry go for the cert that most meets your needs at the time.

ACSM is more clinical and entry level -still teaching too much outdated protocols in their certs or at least the HFI. Great cert for those just getting into the industry that want to work in more medical based settings.

NASM is moving into too much corrective exercise/physical therapy, but do have some good stuff to offer educationally that others don't, you just have to know what is bs and what is good info. I think a lot of clubs have got caught up in NASM marketing ability and their affiliation with APEX and 24 hour fitness - i believe they are all owned by the same company. They do a decent job of teaching you how to write programs and functional biomechanics that most don't teach in their certs, just don't buy everything they are selling on their assessment model.

NSCA has both a athletic and general cert and they do a good job of teaching you the basics about program design, that some certs do a horrible job of addressing. I believe their CSCS still requires a degree which sets them a part from most, but has been awhile since I took this one so not sure they still go by that. I would find it hard to believe that NSCA would still not be one of the top certs for most quality organizations, not that they will teach you everything, since not cert does that and you won't find one that you will agree with everything they teach or at least you shouldn'

I hope this sheds some light on the topic since I have been through all the above and have managed personal training staff for the last 6 years before moving on to manage a facility. All three have their pluses and minuses and all three are reputable and great places to start your education, since you will always learn something from every organization you go through.

[BrianB]

Thanks for the detailed reply rbd. I think in the environment I'm likely to end up in the CSCS would have more credibility than NASM, but less recognition than ACSM. Hence I'll start with ACSM. The CSCS does require a 4-year degree, but it doesn't have to be a health-field 4-year degree, so my bachelor's will qualify me to sit for that should I choose to do so. I'd really like to do the ACSM HFI, but you need a health-related degree for that one and I don't see myself starting a new major anytime soon.

Thanks again for the time you put into your reply. Your perspective is very valuable.

[rbd]

Brian,

Check with ACSM. I had a trainer who had a degree in communications that sent them a letter to allow here to sit for the exam and they did approve her, so there may be some type of loop hole where you don't need a health related degree, unless they changed that in the past few years. I think you are going about it the right way and doing your homework. Too many people quickly select one cert and go for it without thinking if it really suits their specific needs. Good luck.